THP power loss

[alex102]

So any another citroen pcv pipe will do?

[mattds3sport]

u wont need a new one they will just move ur existing one

[alex102]

Okay, thanks. I'm asking so many questions because i want to go as prepared as possible.

[alex102]

So i'm back from the dealership... it seems that i have the timing problem and they are going to fix it at the beginning of January.

Meanwhile i'm driving a 1.6 VTi DS3, still yellow, but with silver rims.

[ffcphone]

Another to add to the list

I took delivery of a DS3 DSport in October 2010. The car was originally registered in April 2010 and was used as a demonstrator at my local dealer. It had circa 2,500 miles when I took delivery. It now has circa 12,500 miles on the clock.

One day prior to setting off on a 2,000 mile roadtrip in December 2010, I decided to do the usual checks and opened the bonnet for the first time since taking delivery of the car. I spotted what I believed was oil around the cylinder head/spark plug region but not just a little bit of oil, but quite a lot. It reminded me of an occasion with my previous car when I managed to miss the oil filler cap when topping up spewed oil all over the exterior of the top of the cylinder head. Despite hours of mopping up, I never did get it all cleaned up. But I digress. That was with a previous car.

It was also about this time that I began to notice irregular instances of the DS3 idling poorly when cold, to the extent where I would find myself having to blip the gas as I felt it might die on me. Also, on cold starts, if you blipped the gas, a rattle could be heard as the revs fell back to idle. This would go away soon after warming up.

So with the oil "issue" and my 2,000 mile roadtrip I popped into the dealer in December 2010. They took a quick look and concluded the oil must have been the result of a poor top-up and as I had not done any since taking ownership, it must have been one of their people previously. They cleaned it up. As for the idling issue as no fault codes were recorded and the car behaved fine in their hands, I was told to monitor the position.

The next day, when I was due to go on my 2,000 mile road trip, with the oil issue still worrying me despite what the garage had told me, I lost confidence in the DS3 so took another car.

Fast forward to Summer 2011 and the rough idling when cold issue, whilst still irregular, was nevertheless getting more common. But as no warnings or lights came on, I felt there was little I could do.

Fast forward again to just before Christmas 2011. One Saturday, I was driving to the outlaws when I found myself having to almost floor the gas just to get any sense of acceleration from the car. I thought my leg was playing up but after several attempts to floor the pedal, the car hardly responded at all. It was as if the turbo had been switched offline and a rev limited had kicked in fairly low down. No warning lights. No messages.

Driving to work on the Monday, I had a 15 minute stretch on the M61 where I couldn't get much past 70mph and going up any hills the car would slow to 60mph! But towards the end of the M61 journey, the car suddenly started behaving normally again as if someone had flipped a switch. The turbo was doing its job and car was lively once again.

I took the car into the local Citroen dealer and one of their technicians confirmed the THP 150 engine had been causing some problems. Apparently there was issues with contaminated fuel from the factory and faulty temperature sensors. I left the car all day, despite no official appointment, and I was called in around 4pm to collect it. Whilst no lights or warnings had been flashed up, they confirmed a fault code had been stored but that they would have expected MIL illumination too. Indeed, I was told had there been MIL illumination together with that fault code, Citroen advised an official timing belt fix. But that as I had not had MIL illumination, they were flummoxed. They downloaded the latest software and reset the adaptions and told me to monitor and if the performance issue appeared again they would do the official fix regardless of MIL illumination.

Saturday just gone, NYE, I was returning from Old Trafford having watched lowly Blackburn beat us 3-2! I got caught up behind a car doing 45mph in a 70mph zone on the A666 just before the 50mph zone kicks in. I waited for the unbroken lane divider to become broken, thereby allowing me to overtake (spot the advanced driver!), before changing down to 4th and booting it. The car surged forward briefly before then almost giving up. The car felt like it skidded from the performance thrust last so short. Sure enough, it had gone back to its very sluggish non-performance mode. Again, no lights. No warnings.

The next day, NYD, I was driving to the outlaws which is a short 10 min drive. During the trip, the MIL came on and "anti-pollution system failure" was illuminated.

This morning, I again drove my usual commute along the M61 where the car could not be cajoled much past 70mph and performance was all but minimal. Again, towards the end of my motorway journey, the car just returned to normal like that. Performance fine. Turbo fine. MIL still illuminated.

I dropped the car off at the dealer before work this morning, telling them I did not feel the car was roadworthy and that having researched the net over the weekend, was aware of numerous others with this engine having these same issues and that I hoped they could fix it. I am somewhat fortuitious in that I work only 5 mins walk away from the dealer and I can also commute to/from work by public transport and indeed usually do. So I've left the car with them in the hope over the next few days they can sort it. I suspect they'll look at the timing belt fix which apparently is a "two day job".

I will ensure I get as much info out of them as possible when I get it back but if anyone has anything useful to chip in, feel free.

F

[mattds3sport]

unless i write a 84 page essay for ya quick breif. alot of thp`s had this issue varying in cause some the pcv pipe others timing chains , and others piston rings gone. there are certainly info rapids on citroens system and more info on here thn citroen will give you so all i can suggest is spending some time on here reading up about the issue. Theres numerous threads about it , the one youre in now , theres "THP engine issues" under the ds3r chat thread and many more just have a scout about and see wot u find but dont worry ur not alone.

[gar074]

Hi ffcphone, sorry to hear your (all too familiar) tale of woe. Hope you get it sorted quickly.

Your description of your DS3's symptoms is exactly how I would have described mine.

The official CUK response seems to be to replace the timing chain & tensioner, but this isn't a sure-fire fix. Mine needed further lengthy attention before normal service was resumed (detailed in my previous posts on this thread). It's now done 1500 miles without a glitch since I got it back, so I'm hoping all is now OK.

(incidentally, mine didn't show any sign of oil loss around the injectors, although it had started using oil before the problems occurred).

[ffcphone]

Cheers for the prompt responses. Pleased to learn at least one DS3 has been successfully "healed". I spent a lot of time over the weekend reading numerous tales where no resolution had been achieved and I was beginning to grow disenchanted. I'll see what course of action my dealer chooses to take first and for the benefit of others will post any ongoing saga here!

[ffcphone]

An update for you...

As mentioned a couple of posts back, my DS3 is currently at the Citroen dealer about a 5 minute walk from my work. They attempted to call me late yesterday afternoon and succeeded in reaching only my voicemail advising "parts were on order and were expected in tomorrow [today]".

Given the various issues reported here and elsewhere and with the proximity of the garage so close, I took a leisurely stroll down there just now, walking straight into the workshop area rather than attempting to get information from service reception. A young lad, working on a car nearby, spotted my entrance and came across. Coincidentally he was the same lad I saw when I brought the car in last time. Being circa 20 years old, I stereotypically had my doubts he'd be able to help but very quickly spewed forth his fountain of knowledge. I almost felt obliged to apologise for secretly thinking he'd be hopeless. Anyways, he took me over to my DS3, bonnet open and clearly still under repair at which time a guy in his early 50s, obviously the technician responsible for my car, walked over. Ended up having a 10-15 minute chat with both.

Key points to emerge.

The MIL, having been illuminated when I drove the car onto their forecourt on Tuesday morning, had reset itself on next start-up as they drove it into the workshop. However, 4 fault codes were stored and whilst they cannot be 100% certain which fix or fixes will cure all 4 in one go, they were leaning towards the timing chain as the source of the problem. Having taken readings of the timing chain, it was found to be "out of tolerance" ie too long I presume. This is a car 20 months old with 12,500 miles on the clock remember. I put it to him: is it likely the supplied timing chain was of inferior quality to that requested/required by BMW? He said "yes". So they have replaced the timing chain, tensioners and pulleys.

This is the first car this particular dealership has worked on with this issue although their Blackpool dealership has had "numerous".

Other fixes if this does not work include examining the oil quality - there have been issues of cars with inferior oil supplied at the factory - and exploring for fuel contamination. But the fault codes revealed by the car and the realisation the timing chain was buggered, lead the garage to this particular path.

Not expecting car back until early next week as the timing is still to be set up and a "good road test" is to be carried out.

Pleased I got to see and talk to the technicians. Instills some faith they might get it right first time although from this and other threads no guarantee of that.

And if anyone's interested in seeing an "unwrapped" THP 150...

[monkeynuts]

An update for you...

As mentioned a couple of posts back, my DS3 is currently at the Citroen dealer about a 5 minute walk from my work. They attempted to call me late yesterday afternoon and succeeded in reaching only my voicemail advising "parts were on order and were expected in tomorrow [today]".

Given the various issues reported here and elsewhere and with the proximity of the garage so close, I took a leisurely stroll down there just now, walking straight into the workshop area rather than attempting to get information from service reception. A young lad, working on a car nearby, spotted my entrance and came across. Coincidentally he was the same lad I saw when I brought the car in last time. Being circa 20 years old, I stereotypically had my doubts he'd be able to help but very quickly spewed forth his fountain of knowledge. I almost felt obliged to apologise for secretly thinking he'd be hopeless. Anyways, he took me over to my DS3, bonnet open and clearly still under repair at which time a guy in his early 50s, obviously the technician responsible for my car, walked over. Ended up having a 10-15 minute chat with both.

Key points to emerge.

The MIL, having been illuminated when I drove the car onto their forecourt on Tuesday morning, had reset itself on next start-up as they drove it into the workshop. However, 4 fault codes were stored and whilst they cannot be 100% certain which fix or fixes will cure all 4 in one go, they were leaning towards the timing chain as the source of the problem. Having taken readings of the timing chain, it was found to be "out of tolerance" ie too long I presume. This is a car 20 months old with 12,500 miles on the clock remember. I put it to him: is it likely the supplied timing chain was of inferior quality to that requested/required by BMW? He said "yes". So they have replaced the timing chain, tensioners and pulleys.

This is the first car this particular dealership has worked on with this issue although their Blackpool dealership has had "numerous".

Other fixes if this does not work include examining the oil quality - there have been issues of cars with inferior oil supplied at the factory - and exploring for fuel contamination. But the fault codes revealed by the car and the realisation the timing chain was buggered, lead the garage to this particular path.

Not expecting car back until early next week as the timing is still to be set up and a "good road test" is to be carried out.

Pleased I got to see and talk to the technicians. Instills some faith they might get it right first time although from this and other threads no guarantee of that.

And if anyone's interested in seeing an "unwrapped" THP 150...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2790[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]2791[/ATTACH]

When this happened to mine I had complete power loss and no engine light ...........drove the car gently for a day until the garage could look at it and the power came back 3 times .

In all my 40 years of owning fast cars and understanding engines very well this is just plain weird ..............any way after 20 bits changed the car has never gone like this ....................watch this space

[Clarky]

Bloody hell another thp engine with problems...Lost power on mine today...Dont think turbo's working can't here the dump valve working....Have no warning lights....Coverd 12k miles.
Booked into dealer for monday....Not looking forward to the outcome !!!.

[gar074]

After 2k trouble-free miles following its lengthy 'holiday' in the menders, my THP has just developed a new symptom.

Twice, when gunning it after a stretch of motorway running at a steady 70, it's given three very rapid stutters - rat-tat-tat - before resuming normal service.

Anyone else had this?

[mattds3sport]

yes. like you been on the motorway doin 70 then it clears up foot down and it stuttered like you have said. although hasnt done it since citroen have had it back and modified pcv pipe position and cleaned out engine.

[gar074]

The pcv pipe mod is something I haven't had done yet - I can see another trip to the menders coming up.

Did yours throw up a warning light or fault code after the stuttering?

[Clarky]

Just got mine back from dealers....All they did was clear the fault codes after having the anti pollution warning light !!!....Had a steady drive home on the motorway had the familiar stutter which iv'e always had around 2750 rpm again ease off the accelerator and it drives through the stutter.

Been on the rolling road with this fault dont get any warning lights the fault code is knock sensors.