HPFP on the THP

[colganraz]

I have asked about the deal, in the meantime i have the mini part number (apparently they sell the pump ALOT cheaper than citroen/peugeot)

M13.51.7.588.879

[Ragnarok]

I see that the pump on the racing has different part number 1920RT

Can't remember, have to check it next time I go to garage

[Jamie@SPTuning]

Just compared rail pressure set point maps racing vs 150thp...interesting!

[Chris_Blue]

Tell us the interesting bit...?

[Superfly Guy]

Just compared rail pressure set point maps racing vs 150thp...interesting!

Those of us who have no idea what you are talking about will be the judge of that

[Chris_Blue]

Guessing the pressure on the Racings is greater?

[Jamie@SPTuning]

In fact, it's lower around mid load conditions, but the same on full load.

[neil]

lower on mid load? seems a bit weird that. very strange indeed. you have the charts there to look at to compare? be good to see what the difference is.

We've had a 207 GTi up here running full forge goody list, forged internals and owen developments hybrid turbo around the 280 mark on a Stage 4 map from E-Tuners and it seems to be doing ok on the BMW mini pump on the Cooper S setup.

Could the JCW Mini have the same readouts on the pumps as the racing, or did they stick to the same pump as the S did?

[Jamie@SPTuning]

Ill pull up the maps again so you can see.

[Jamie@SPTuning]

HPFP on the THP

I have a theory as to why but Czar is your man to answer this.

[Czar]

lower on mid load? seems a bit weird that. very strange indeed. you have the charts there to look at to compare? be good to see what the difference is.

We've had a 207 GTi up here running full forge goody list, forged internals and owen developments hybrid turbo around the 280 mark on a Stage 4 map from E-Tuners and it seems to be doing ok on the BMW mini pump on the Cooper S setup.

Could the JCW Mini have the same readouts on the pumps as the racing, or did they stick to the same pump as the S did?

I have a theory as to why but Czar is your man to answer this.

Let's step back and look at the facts, the HPFP is exactly the same whether it is fitted to a 150 THP Citroen or Peugeot, a 175 BMW MINI Cooper S or the Citroen DS3 Racing and BMW MINI JCW, there is one HPFP as fitted to all THP pre LCI engine variants, and one HPFP as fitted to the LCI range of engines, regardless of manufacturer.

As for the variation in fuel pressure, the HPFP has a working range between 50bar and 150bar (725psi - 2140psi) the variable pressure as read through diagnostics, is all very much dependant of the following.

Engine temperature.

Throttle position.

Charge air pressure.

Engine load pressure (cylinder fill)

Air intake temperature.

Engine cylinder temperature (load variant)

Oil pressure for timing advance and retardation.

The above variants play a crucial part as to when and how much fuel is injected, and how many injection pulses are required per each individual firing cylinder, there can be as many as 3 individual injections of a metered fuel amount delivered before TDC (top dead centre) and immediately after on the compression/power stroke, the first particular injection pulse of fuel before TDC (top dead centre) is to cool the firing cylinder, generally under heavy load conditions, the normal injection of fuel almost at TDC (top dead centre) of the compression stroke, and the 3rd and final if required injection of fuel, is during the actual firing of the air/fuel charge on the power stroke, this final if required injection of fuel, is to overcome heavy load super knock (pinking) from excess cylinder temperatures.

What I have explained above, are very very complex and all happen in less than 5 milliseconds, given the piston mean speed and the time limiting injection window, which can decrease to less than 2 milliseconds, engine load and RPM dependant.

[Jamie@SPTuning]

If all the pumps are identical as you say, why would PSA give a different part number for the Racing as to what's on the 155?
To expensive from Citroen parts, bought one from Mini dealers for an R56 in the end.
£120 cheaper!

[Czar]

If all the pumps are identical as you say, why would PSA give a different part number for the Racing as to what's on the 155?
To expensive from Citroen parts, bought one from Mini dealers for an R56 in the end.
£120 cheaper!

When you have a multi-platform shared common component, in this case the HPFP, each specific vehicle manufacturer may want the component marked with their own specific identifying body number code from the original manufacturer, in the case of the HPFP this was the company, Continental, this allows each individual vehicle manufacturer to ramp up the cost specific to their vehicle range which share the HPFP.

The DS3 Racing was a limited edition model, and needed to be identified as such, even though it shares lots of common components, you have to make the customer feel exclusive, and that exclusivity comes with model specific part numbers and associated costs, this is common practice between multi-platform sharing vehicle manufacturers.

Here's my experience from the BMW MINI side of things, take the Cooper S and JCW models, same engine, different HP outputs, now the JCW model is advertised as having a different cylinder head, and valves, yet when I bought a complete brand new JCW engine for my track project BMW MINI, upon a side by side engine strip down, my Cooper S and JCW engines, they were identical in everyway, I measured everything, weighed everything and noted the identifying individual codes, yet there was no different cylinder head or indeed valves, yet the manufacturers blah blah said so, yet actual physical proof by me, told a completely different story, and it's fact to this day, and I published my findings world wide too.

[Superfly Guy]

Is it for your car Jamie?

[Jamie@SPTuning]

Yes