2010 DS3 THP 150 turbo engine failure

[CPDS3]

I did ask if they could see any history or issues with the vehicle but they said they couldn't tell that by the VIN (over the phone anyway...).

I plan on running it on premium once I'm filling up, but up until this point I have no idea what fuel has been used by the previous owner / car yard. The car was also out of rego for a couple of months, so possible it may have been sitting for that time.

I'm going to book it in today, but no Citroen service centres can fit the car in until Tuesday next week. Looks like I'll be breaking out the ol' running shoes to get around for a while... haha

[lfcrule1972]

Higher octane fuel= less detonation issues. Fact. (Google it)

I'm not disputing that Chris, what I am disputing is that by using higher octane fuel owners will avoid the issues seen with some of these engines

[monkeynuts]

So untrue, it's a multiple year on year engine award winner, fact.

But is it the DS3 concept that is winning the award or the fault ridden THP engine ?

The concept is fantastic that power unit maybe not so

[lfcrule1972]

I have seen a list of the awards the engine has won and I was surprised too given the feedback/issues you can see on the internet

[monkeynuts]

I have seen a list of the awards the engine has won and I was surprised too given the feedback/issues you can see on the internet

At the end of the day maybe the engine should be run on higher octane petrol but I am sure its not stated in the handbook

[lfcrule1972]

I don't think it is either, it seems to be a recommendation that Citroen/dealers/the AA are making to owners who have issues

[Czar]

But is it the DS3 concept that is winning the award or the fault ridden THP engine ?

The concept is fantastic that power unit maybe not so

Since the THP engine was introduced to the market in 2005 in the highly succesful BMW MINI Cooper S and JCW models, the THP engine has been wining the engine award year on year, not bad for in you're words, a fault ridden THP engine.

Instead of blaming the THP engine, which is fantastic, try looking a little closer to home, by that I mean, Citroen's software for the ECU.

[Chris_Blue]

Agreed Czar. Wish theyd fix the carbonisation of inlet valves tho
Understand thats all GDI engines, not just THP

The other major issue of the timing chain and tensioner issues- produce better quality parts maybe?

[Czar]

Agreed Czar. Wish theyd fix the carbonisation of inlet valves tho
Understand thats all GDI engines, not just THP

The other major issue of the timing chain and tensioner issues- produce better quality parts maybe?

When engines or individual components are commissioned, they must meet ever demanding regulations and cost factors, and when cost factors regulate the design and manufacture, then sadly sometimes, reliability becomes an issue, in the case of carbon build up, on all GDI engines, not just the THP, then you need to understand from a regulated manufacturers point of view, that the world squeeze on emmisions plays a vital role, in order to meet these very tight regulated emmisions, then we as automotive engineers had to increase MPG whilst reducing CO2 emmisions, so you end up with GDI (gasoline direct injection) which gives fantastic MPG, and recycling the crankcase gasses (PCV) you can't have it all, there has to be a trade off.

As for the timing components, it's not so much the original chain and components which many believe were inferior, the real issue was from poor maintenance schedule information, leading to irregular oil level checks, when running high cylinder pressures, (THP turbo high pressure) and increased running temperatures, all in vain to increase performance whilst giving fantastic MPG with very low emmisions.

It is crucial for regular oil level checks, as the increased cylinder pressure bleeds down into the crankcase, which in turn lifts the oil in the crankcase, (windage) as the piston rings rotate from heat vibrations, this is quite normal, every now and then the piston rings will allow the passage of the pressurised crankcase suspended oil, into the combustion chamber, hence why some THP engines use upto the allowed and well documented 1 litre of engine oil to every 1000 miles, this may seem very high, and when compared to regular port injection naturally aspirated or charged engines, which don't have high cylinder pressures or temperatures, then yes it is.

So with the above understood, the lack of oil, from irregular oil checks, starves the timing chain and components, of the crucial cooling from the oil, which in turn induces rapid frictional heat wear deterioration, so the update was to design and manufacture components to better withstand any increased frictional heat from poor oil levels, although this update is still and never will be a permanent fix.

CHECK YOUR OIL LEVEL AT LEAST EVERY WEEK, and keep it topped up to the maximum mark, this will lessen the chance of future issues.

[BeefMasta]

CHECK YOUR OIL LEVEL AT LEAST EVERY WEEK, and keep it topped up to the maximum mark, this will lessen the chance of future issues.

I'll be checking mine when I get home after reading this.

[Chris_Blue]

Yep- check mine as a minimum every week. Leave car on a flat surface, 4 hrs
Its interesting to see the oil (From an oil change) get very slightly darker every week.
Change my oil every 6 months too (Approx 6k miles) wether its at a service, or do myself (Piece of cake)

About 5k since my last oil change, and the oil is already dirtier. Service due next month

Good post Czar. Always wait till engine warmed up before going over 2k revs too
Theres always a bit of noise till the engines warmed

Ed- do these magnetic sump plugs work Czar- I'm getting one anyway :-)

[Czar]

Yep- check mine as a minimum every week. Leave car on a flat surface, 4 hrs
Its interesting to see the oil (From an oil change) get very slightly darker every week.
Change my oil every 6 months too (Approx 6k miles) wether its at a service, or do myself (Piece of cake)

About 5k since my last oil change, and the oil is already dirtier. Service due next month

Good post Czar. Always wait till engine warmed up before going over 2k revs too
Theres always a bit of noise till the engines warmed

Ed- do these magnetic sump plugs work Czar- I'm getting one anyway :-)

Regardless of how frequently you change the engine oil, as the engine ages with use, oil will burn into the surface of the engine castings and internal components, the more heat cycles the darker the burnt oil residue becomes, it is this burnt residue on the engine and internal component cast surfaces which discolour the fresh oil, nothing to worry about.

It's good to know you change the engine oil on a regular basis, if only more owners would do this, instead of complaining about the cost of oil or service components, there would be less issues.

Magnetic sump plugs, think about it this way, if the magnet at the bottom of the sump is picking up shards of metal, what's the oil filter doing ? More importantly, if you find shards of metal attached to the magnetic sump plug, what component is breaking down or wearing out ?

As to you're original question Chris, yes they work, at capturing shards of metal, that said, as the magnetic sump plug becomes laden with shards of metal, some will get washed off from oil movement, then where do these loose shards end up, bearing surfaces maybe !!

[CPDS3]

Thanks for the good maintenance information, guys. I'll definitely take these on board for general care for my car.

I'll update once I figure out what's going on from the mechanic.

[CPDS3]

So I heard back from the Citroen Mechanics today and their result is:

"Download Engine ECU software (campaign MRC) to resolve mixture regulation fault and engine warning (to use head cleaning agents if performance loss with 98 RON or light returns)

Minor weep of oil onto the cylinder head - Retension timing tensioner with its seal (no charge)"

So turns out it was just the ECU upgrade that was needed and cost me nothing to fix up. Let's hope it stays that way!

[Owd git]

The MRC recall dates back to 2012.........looks as though the original owner didn't get it done!