Timing Belt

[minimike]

So the first time they just changed the tensioner, and now they need to do the whole chain kit. Sounds possible. At first checked chain found within limits changed tensioner, chain got worse now out of limits whole thing needs changing. They probably should have done the whole thing the first time but they were paying so took the cheapest route first.

This sounds spot on to me........they should have changed the whole kit, but decided that saving money was more important than customer satisfaction.

[Czar]

So the first time they just changed the tensioner, and now they need to do the whole chain kit. Sounds possible. At first checked chain found within limits changed tensioner, chain got worse now out of limits whole thing needs changing. They probably should have done the whole thing the first time but they were paying so took the cheapest route first.

This sounds spot on to me........they should have changed the whole kit, but decided that saving money was more important than customer satisfaction.

A common sense solution would indeed be to change the whole timing kit, however, common sense does not prevail in today's automotive franchised dealerships, the franchised dealerships are controlled by the vehicle manufacturer, it is the vehicle manufacturer which governs the rules by which the franchise dealership is contracted to adhere to, it also the vehicle manufacturer which pays the dealership at a reduced labour rate, for any warranty work, the vehicle manufacturer simply supplies the parts for each warranty claim.

Although people think it's the dealership pulling their pants down, when warranty claims are argued, it is actually the vehicle manufacturer, so when people think the dealership is only replacing a single part under warranty, knowing that a little way down the road, that single part will need replacing again with a superseded parts kit, the franchised dealership are not doing it to save money, they have a very strict set of procedures to follow, as set out by the vehicle manufacturer.

Although frustrating to you the customer, try cutting the dealership a little slack, work with them not against them, common sense does not factor when costing worldwide warranty !!

[streettweeks]

A common sense solution would indeed be to change the whole timing kit, however, common sense does not prevail in today's automotive franchised dealerships, the franchised dealerships are controlled by the vehicle manufacturer, it is the vehicle manufacturer which governs the rules by which the franchise dealership is contracted to adhere to, it also the vehicle manufacturer which pays the dealership at a reduced labour rate, for any warranty work, the vehicle manufacturer simply supplies the parts for each warranty claim.

Although people think it's the dealership pulling their pants down, when warranty claims are argued, it is actually the vehicle manufacturer, so when people think the dealership is only replacing a single part under warranty, knowing that a little way down the road, that single part will need replacing again with a superseded parts kit, the franchised dealership are not doing it to save money, they have a very strict set of procedures to follow, as set out by the vehicle manufacturer.

Although frustrating to you the customer, try cutting the dealership a little slack, work with them not against them, common sense does not factor when costing worldwide warranty !!

Brilliant response. That is really good info. And makes perfect sense.

[Bazra]

My 1-6 vti has covered 46000 miles in six years with no trouble but suddenly developed a loud knocking noise from timing chain side of engine. Took car straight to garage and had to have new timing chain kit and vanos gears fitted with a bill of nearly one thousand pounds.
Tried to get some comp of citroen as a manufacturing fault but no joy

[Czar]

My 1-6 vti has covered 46000 miles in six years with no trouble but suddenly developed a loud knocking noise from timing chain side of engine. Took car straight to garage and had to have new timing chain kit and vanos gears fitted with a bill of nearly one thousand pounds.
Tried to get some comp of citroen as a manufacturing fault but no joy

Citroen's refusal to offer you any form of goodwill is justified, as your car is outside of the factory warranty, with no supportive evidence from you as to a manufacturing fault !!

[Dangerousfish]

with no supportive evidence from you as to a manufacturing fault !!

Where else would you suppose that the defect was picked up?

[Czar]

Where else would you suppose that the defect was picked up?

Defect, manufacturing fault, these descriptors are so common these day, over used with no justification to back them up,

Defect, in this case, you've a vehicle which is 6 years of age, covered 46,000 miles, with no further information to the vehicles maintenance schedule or the all important, oil level at the time of failure, or indeed the oil level over the age of the vehicle and mileage covered.

On inspection of failed components, this can be determined from metallurgy testing, of which I do often for various clients.

A manufacturing fault, maybe a casting impurity, is not frequently checked or indeed detected at the manufacture of mentioned component/s this is why we have a time limited or mileage covered warranty, anything outside of this manufacturers warranty, is deemed general wear and tear, as the vehicle manufacturer has done its best due to manufacturing cost, to cover any underlying potential component failure during the working life within the warranty offered.

[cyclone]

Things wear out, things break.

[streettweeks]

All valid points, we don't know enough to determine that failure and so many factors, driving style, regular servicing, quality of oil, fuel, parts. Id be interested to know how many threads would be avoided if people did keep up with regular QUALITY servicing with quality parts, quality oils,
decent fuel and general maintenance. Too many times do people say oh well i skipped a service, couldn't afford it w.e. or they let inferior garages fill their car's with shit oil, shit fuel and shit parts.

[Drummond Base]

Do cars fall within the same laws as covered by Consumer Rights Act? ie six years, reasonable wear and tear, inherent fault, expectation blah blah blah. Obviously outside of the warranty and up to the six year point its the owners responsibility to prove the part had an inherent fault.

I have succeeded with numerous electrical items but never tried it with a car. I managed it with two computer items that were both well outside their warranty (one by 24 months).

[Czar]

Do cars fall within the same laws as covered by Consumer Rights Act? ie six years, reasonable wear and tear, inherent fault, expectation blah blah blah. Obviously outside of the warranty and up to the six year point its the owners responsibility to prove the part had an inherent fault.

I have succeeded with numerous electrical items but never tried it with a car. I managed it with two computer items that were both well outside their warranty (one by 24 months).

When you have moving components that need their life to be cooled and lubricated by oil, any failure outside of the offered warranty, is subject to general wear and tear, it is expected that a vehicles owner has enough common sense to follow the guidelines to maintenance, written in the owners manual and service schedule, if anyone is so neglective to blatantly dismiss supplied written guidelines to maintenance, then try blaming the vehicle manufacturer to component failure due to manufacturer fault/defect, the vehicle owner will need to prove beyond all shadow of doubt, by means of independent testing, that's where I come in, that the component/s do indeed have an inherent flaw, to deem the component not fit for purpose or dangerous from failure.

It's all too easy for a component that is subject to friction wear to fail, from lack of oil lubrication, then the owner of the failed vehicle to try cover their back, by adding oil after failure, this is a very regular occurrence, and very very easy to diagnose upon inspection and testing, I often have to inspect and test components, only to uncover the real cover up of deception.

[Drummond Base]

And people say im daft for changing my oil every 5000 miles.

[cyclone]

And people say im daft for changing my oil every 5000 miles.

IMO you would be daft not to.

[Funky]

Czar, having read all your posts in this thread, I am utterly impressed by both your knowledge and your detailed, yet easily understandable explanations. I have much respect for you and thankyou for sharing and taking the time to post your wisdom. Top Man!!

[Czar]

Czar, having read all your posts in this thread, I am utterly impressed by both your knowledge and your detailed, yet easily understandable explanations. I have much respect for you and thankyou for sharing and taking the time to post your wisdom. Top Man!!

Thank you Funky for your kind words of admiration and respect, very much appreciated.

Automotive Motorsport and engineering is in my blood, past down through generations of family, unraveling what to others can seem complex, whilst having the ability to apply layman's logic, and get the point/s across is all part of what drives me, to hopefully allow those that are willing to read that nothing, or in this case automotive, is beyond most people's comprehension, your vehicle is nothing more than a skeleton shell with a collection of components attached.

Keeping those mechanical components in working order is not rocket science, the rocket science comes from the muppet behind the wheel, who has full disregard for the owners manual, warning and advice labels on, in and around the vehicle, and then scratches the nether regions when their rocket science, the one day at school when they should have paid attention in basic high school science, fails them.