EU Referendum

[Dangerousfish]

I'll start this thread with a warning: I appreciate the this subject may be close to your hearts and you may have strong opinions either way. There's no issue in having strong opinions, just how they're worded.

Please appreciate that every person has a right to vote how they want and just because that vote may not go the way you want does not give you the right to harass, canvas, intimidate or insult anybody because of their beliefs.

As I'm sure most of you are aware, we have the opportunity to vote on the 23rd June this year in what may be the biggest change to the world in our lifetimes.

I've created this poll/thread as a way to canvas how people will be voting (all votes are anonymous) and to open up the topic to a friendly discussion.


How do people think campaigns have been run up till now? Anything that has stuck out to you that's helped you decide how you'll be voting? How will you be voting?

[Dave]

Leave

[Broda]

Interesting thread... As long as it stays cool

Personally I am voting out.

I feel that it would be best if I didn't write why instead I am open to questions & discussions! After all listening & discussing is learning, I am always open to gain more knowledge upon both sides of the discussion.

After all a true sign of intelligence is being able to entertain a thought without accepting it - Aristotle

[Jo67]

I'm voting out. Too much uncontrolled migration. For me it's about the drain on the NHS and the debacle called education/schooling, which can only get worse when more eastern european countries enter the EU.

[Dangerousfish]

One passionate speech that stuck out to me from the leave campaign was this form Dan Hannan, one of our MEP's:

[Soran]

Still undecided, but I like this quote from some random on Facebook:

We have all been on a night out with that mate who when you are in a club says "it's shit here" let's go somewhere else.
Then when you leave you realise he has no idea where to go and the place you left won't let you back in.
Without a decent follow up plan a leave vote could see the UK standing in a kebab shop arguing about who's fault it is.

And for balance, this a good read from 4 years ago about how Norway thrive without being in the EU:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...r-Britain.html

[Jo67]

Thanks for bringing Dan Hannen to my attention.

[Jan79]

Even if I do not agree wit him at all points I have to admit that he is a really exceptionally gifted speaker.
Daniel Hannan has for sure some points in his speech in particular how a remain vote would be recognized in Brussels.
I would be really sad if UK leaves but they need a kick in the ass in Brussels to wake up and understand they can't go on as they were doing all the years.
To my mind the original european idea was meant in an other way as is is realized by the EU right now, not telling everyone how he has to live its life and
making everything equal but to bring the nations together to live together.

[Dangerousfish]

Even if I do not agree wit him at all points I have to admit that he is a really exceptionally gifted speaker.
Daniel Hannan has for sure some points in his speech in particular how a remain vote would be recognized in Brussels.
I would be really sad if UK leaves but they need a kick in the ass in Brussels to wake up and understand they can't go on as they were doing all the years.
To my mind the original european idea was meant in an other way as is is realized by the EU right now, not telling everyone how he has to live its life and
making everything equal but to bring the nations together to live together.

It's crazy that the leave campaign haven't used him more prominently in their speeches.

Another interesting spin from the Leave campaign from a leaflet left in my letterbox:

"Imagine the vote on 23 June is whether we should join the EU - with the Euro crisis, the migration crisis, and new coutries like Turkey and Serbia being lined up as new member states.

Would you vote to join the European Union?"

[Jan79]

Oh yes there is a shedload of work to come but to chicken out is also no solution.
But before enlarging the EU they should come to terms with the existing members.

[Dangerousfish]

Oh yes there is a shedload of work to come but to chicken out is also no solution.
But before enlarging the EU they should come to terms with the existing members.

One might argue that was what David Cameron was trying for before the referendum announcement. If I recall correctly he came back with a deal that gave the UK "Special Status"...

What we've since found out though is that this "Status" can be renounced at any time given the appropriate backing from other member states leading me to suggest that we can stamp our feet/spit out our dummies/try and reform the EU, however you want to word it but because of the size of the EU it's always going to be an uphill battle to get the changes the British public want, need or don't want.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...special-status

"Despite agreeing a package with fellow EU leaders at a marathon summit in February, Mr Cameron still needs many of the measures in his renegotiation deal to be ratified by the European Parliament."

"“It's not legally-binding and they're perfectly open about their plans to scupper it – after the referendum.

"If this is their attitude right before a possible Brexit vote, how much worse will we be treated if the ‘In’ campaign con us into a ‘Remain’ vote and lock us in for another 40 years?""

[Jan79]

From my point of view the basic error of the current EU is that every member always seeks to get the maximum out of the EU for themselfs.
In this way they are getting nowhere as they are inhibiting the whole EU in the really important issues.
Result is that we get a regulation from brussels for how straight a cucumber should be or the ban of the old light bulbs but quoting
Daniel Hannan a trade agreement with India isn't signed what brings us to TTIP and the strange secret way this agreement is negotiated.

[Dangerousfish]

The TTIP could be a whole post in itself, backwards democracy with some good ideas.

The same could be said about the present state of the EU as you rightly pointed out - Great ideas, poor execution.

[Jan79]

The politicians in brussels seem to lack a good portion of self criticism.
At the moment they are so self-confident in their lalaland in brussels they need a really hard slap in their faces to wake up.
Maybe a leave vote would be this slap but I'm not sure if they would get it right or just react like little stubborn children.

[Dangerousfish]