New DS3 Intercooler from Alive Tuning - stay tuned (pun intended)

[Dangerousfish]

Good advertising proves that people will spend money on what they are told irrespective of the facts.
Until i see a comparison for temps with a relocated OEM cooler versus an aftermarket cooler in the same location, i wouldn't part with my money.

The point I'm arguing in my reply though is for Steve with a wad of cash and not much sense.

To Steve, if he can get a fancy intercooler that's visible from behind the grill and it's not going to render his engine worse off 9/10 times he's going to buy this or similar. Given the choice of having to remove the current intercooler, fabricate a bracket and weld it to the existing cooler, then re-route pipework to have this in an efficient place OR Buying something online with all parts pre-made. It's a given what most would choose in my eyes.

That's not to say it's the best option

[mjogreen]

So is this one relocated or not?

[Superfly Guy]

The point I'm arguing in my reply though is for Steve with a wad of cash and not much sense.

To Steve, if he can get a fancy intercooler that's visible from behind the grill and it's not going to render his engine worse off 9/10 times he's going to buy this or similar. Given the choice of having to remove the current intercooler, fabricate a bracket and weld it to the existing cooler, then re-route pipework to have this in an efficient place OR Buying something online with all parts pre-made. It's a given what most would choose in my eyes.

That's not to say it's the best option

I agree and it breaks me everytime im sorting somebodys PC out who has followed the same train of thought.

I understand that not everybody is like Czar, Cyclone, Jamie to name but a few however those that do know better have a morale (as senior forum members) responsibility to highlight risk (£££) versus reward (BHP).

Yes an off the shelf kit removes a lot of drama but £700 + vat is a lot of cash when some custom made pipes and fitting for (potentially) the same performance save may be cheaper. Until we are comparing apples with apples its impossible to recommend.

[Czar]

The reason we use AlliSport is that we have worked with them for many years and their core designs have outperformed any other products previously tested so i am more than confident of any back to back testing would be favorable.

I don’t really understand your question about comparing to an original in the same position, If you guys specifically want a direct replacement we can easily do this and it will outperform the original design. Happy to do that if you want but I don’t see why anyone would want it.

In a back to back test Allisport cores are stronger and more efficient with greater cooling capacity due the Louvered Internal Fin Technology design that creates greater turbulent flow without excessive back pressure meaning the charge air “rolls” inside the core releasing heat energy to the air.

Alex Divers

Good morning Alex, firstly, the very reason this subject is so controversial and misunderstood is, the fact aftermarket intercoolers are advertised and sold on the promise of reducing the air intake temperatures, this is indeed what people want.

My point is this, it's all very well the aftermarket producing an intercooler to fit a specific vehicle, of which has a factory stock intercooler fitted, generally designed and located to work with the specific engines CFM output and frontal area packaging restraints from obligatory crash crumple testing.

The aftermarket come along, size up the available space, and squeeze in the largest possible intercooler they can, and then say, hey look, our intercooler is far more efficient, and reduces intake air temperatures, over the tiny stock intercooler, and the unaware people fall for this time after time.

What needs addressing is, the aftermarket intercooler has a vastly increased volumetric size in comparison to the factory stock intercooler, it's generally the vastly increased volumetric size which is responsible for the reduction of the air intake temperatures, and not necessarily the aftermarket core design.

It's the cathedral vs house scenario, your home is significantly warmer than a cathedral, volumetric difference, the thermal efficiency home vs cathedral are not comparable, so how can you compare a huge aftermarket intercooler to a smaller factory stock intercooler, that's right, you can't.

If the aftermarket produced an exact replica of the factory stock intercooler, whilst retaining the factory stock location and a frontal mounted position, and then did back to back testing, how interesting would that be........

Devil's advocate Czar.

Why would somebody go through the effort to create a product that is less efficient than stock? Or are you arguing that stock would be better than aftermarket if it was in a better position? Forgetting volume, # of fins, etc.. If the OEM THP intercooler was placed in a location similar to this one, would you expect to see a performance increase or decrease over OEM?

If an increase I follow your argument that this is a much easier fix than buying an aftermarket tool for the job. But for those who want easy, "cheap" upgrades surely this is the most efficient option for them?

Refere to above answer.

Have you tested the EOM cooler mounted in the same location as the Allisport one, If so what are the figures? As Czar has mentioned the mounting location of the OEM cooler is poor therefore its hardly a like for like test.

Yes the Allisport cooler may improve temps but how much of that 45C improvement is down to relocation of the mounting position?

Not much is down to frontal mount location, when we have such a huge volumetric difference.

Good advertising proves that people will spend money on what they are told irrespective of the facts.
Until i see a comparison for temps with a relocated OEM cooler versus an aftermarket cooler in the same location, i wouldn't part with my money.

Sensible man.

[Czar]

Of course! When we where developing our Ds3 remaps we found that due to the high air intake temps (seeing as much as 100degC) the Ecu was pulling back the power significantly. This is the main reason behind developing our own intercooler as others simply weren't up to the challenge. When we fitted it and carried on with our testing we seen a 45deg drop in temps which is huge as im sure you are aware!

Just out of curiosity, as we like facts, before spending hard earned cash, do you have the data from the tests to confirm the claimed air intake temperature differential, 100° reducing to 45° and 46° reducing to 24° and the ambient temperature on both of the days ?

[Superfly Guy]

Not much is down to frontal mount location, when we have such a huge volumetric difference.

I should have been a little clearer, i meant the difference in inlet temps with the stock cooler in its design location compared to being frontally mounted.

So this cooler gets you 1C drop in temps for every £15 you spend
Moving the OEM cooler might be better value even taking custom pipes and fitting into account.

[JEZDS3]

At least we have some reasoning behind OEM vs Stock intercoolers and their location now. Those that want to add the fun factor to their THP OR eHDI can now do so safe in the knowledge that their choice will now be fully informed and that there are now several aftermarket intercoolers to choose from!

Thanks for the info everyone.

[Chris_Blue]

Having had the discussion with Czar on this issue a couple years back, as a cost negligible, but work heavy resolution, i would try and move the OEM intercooler, then try get the engine bay temperatures down before purchasing a big expensive intercooler

Or maybe think of a way to cool the incoming air...

[Czar]

Having had the discussion with Czar on this issue a couple years back, as a cost negligible, but work heavy resolution, i would try and move the OEM intercooler, then try get the engine bay temperatures down before purchasing a big expensive intercooler

Or maybe think of a way to cool the incoming air...

WMI (Water/Meth injection) is the most efficient way to remove the heat from the charged air, you can spray pre and post turbo, that said, pre turbo cooling, comes at a price, of excessive wear to the compressor wheel.

[Chris_Blue]

Standard Devils Own WMI installed as well round £500. Had a quote from some place near Southampton

[Czar]

Forget all other systems on the market, the very best is the Aquamist HFS 4 V3.1 dedicated especially for GDI engines, I run this system, and the HFS3 and have done for a good number of years, and on my BMW MINI's I run the systems continuously, from engine start to shut off, without issue.

[Chris_Blue]

Still have the Aquamist installation manual somewhere........... talk about complicated....

[Czar]

Still have the Aquamist installation manual somewhere........... talk about complicated....

LOL, what's complex about it ? Positively straight forward.

[Superfly Guy]

Czar, can you give a quick heads up on WMI as mentioned on here, theory, application, Pros, Cons, cost. Cheers.

[Czar]

Czar, can you give a quick heads up on WMI as mentioned on here, theory, application, Pros, Cons, cost. Cheers.

LOL, a quick heads up, that's a challenge for me, however, thank you for asking SFG, I will do my very best.