THP power loss

[Dangerousfish]

Just found this article so adding for reference.

http://www.etuners.gr/psamini-thp-ti...ems-camshafts/

[Nomgle]

Just found this article so adding for reference.

The link seems to have changed to http://www.etuners.gr/psamini-1-6-th...ems-camshafts/

[pmatil]

So lately have been having increasingly often some power loss (limp mode) and then coming back randomly. Yesterday 3 times it lost power and this morning when starting for the first time. But no warning lights or messages on the screen.

Read the fault codes with Torque and it's the same code: P2178; system too rich off idle bank 1. I cleared it once and after a short driving (still no full power though) got the engine light on, along with a message: engine fault, repair needed.

So no one really have any idea as to what this leads to? Fuel pump? Lambda? Chain? I have booked a trip to the dealer to have a look at the logs but it's not until the 29th.

The car has "only" 45 000 km on the meter so not much. And yes it's a 2010 THP150.

[Dangerousfish]

So lately have been having increasingly often some power loss (limp mode) and then coming back randomly. Yesterday 3 times it lost power and this morning when starting for the first time. But no warning lights or messages on the screen.

Read the fault codes with Torque and it's the same code: P2178; system too rich off idle bank 1. I cleared it once and after a short driving (still no full power though) got the engine light on, along with a message: engine fault, repair needed.

So no one really have any idea as to what this leads to? Fuel pump? Lambda? Chain? I have booked a trip to the dealer to have a look at the logs but it's not until the 29th.

The car has "only" 45 000 km on the meter so not much. And yes it's a 2010 THP150.

Given the series of issues, I would really suggest not driving the car until Citroen can look at this further. The issues sound symptomatic of a problem they usually solve by eventually replacing a few major components.

[Ragnarok]

So lately have been having increasingly often some power loss (limp mode) and then coming back randomly. Yesterday 3 times it lost power and this morning when starting for the first time. But no warning lights or messages on the screen.

Read the fault codes with Torque and it's the same code: P2178; system too rich off idle bank 1. I cleared it once and after a short driving (still no full power though) got the engine light on, along with a message: engine fault, repair needed.

So no one really have any idea as to what this leads to? Fuel pump? Lambda? Chain? I have booked a trip to the dealer to have a look at the logs but it's not until the 29th.

The car has "only" 45 000 km on the meter so not much. And yes it's a 2010 THP150.

Hello fellow Finn

As Liam advised you should take your car to the dealership. Though, beware they (Veho) rip you off if you are not careful.

Some issues I noticed while playing around with THPs:
1. Lean conditions are usually related to a failing HPFP rather than rich conditions. Can be identified on heavy load by stuttering / loss of fuel pressure.
2. Chain related issues can usually be identified by a sound from originating from the chain while cold starting.
3. Lambda is easily checked by looking at fuel trims / lambda voltage (e.g. with TorquePro).
4. Clogged intake manifold causes rich and lean conditions depending on the amount of carbon, and if gunk comes loose and flies into the cylinder chamber.
5. Failing throttle body sensor causes stuttering and weird throttle response. Took a year to fail completely, after when the car would go totally nuts on idle (misfiring, hissing, banging) and became completely immobile.
6. Fouled spark plugs. Carbon build up fouls spark plugs.
7. Defected piston. They are prone to brake due to design and material flaws. Though, when it fails your car is immobile.

Based on your mileage issues 2, 4, and 5, 6, 7 are most relevant.

If you live near Tampere I might have time to look at it with my tools. Some codes and variables are not available unless you have "official tools".

[Markymark]

Just out of curiosity what is you long term fuel trim saying?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[pmatil]

Hello all!

I did check some values with Torque Pro but I didn't have any reference values so not a clue if they were ok or not. The car sits at the dealers yard now, in hope that they have some time to look at it before the 29th. And so I haven't got access to the car at the moment to check values.

As for the issues that Ragnarok suggested I believe carbon buildup is definitely present but in what extent, no idea. All I've got is some screenshots from Torque as I didn't know how to log the realtime values. The internal Lambda tester showed no errors though.

Also noticed that I could not reset the fault code with Torque - or it just came back immediately.

[Markymark]

From experience I would suggest that your timing is out causing the ecu to compensate for this increasing fuelling to prevent knock,once the longterm fuel trim hits 21 the ecu calls time out & puts the car into limp home mode same a my car did p2178 fault code

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[pmatil]

Hello Markymark,

I really hope it is not a chain issue - from what I can remember the long term fuel trim was 12-14 %. The timing advance was something like -3, although I cannot remember what it was exactly.

[Markymark]

Ltf should be less than 10 ideally even with timing advance they can just be reset if there is no chain stretch & no wear to the other parts

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[pmatil]

Update on the car. The fault logs indicated a fault in the first oxygen sensor, but they couldn't get the fault to appear again and they didn't think replacing the sensor would have been sensible at this point.

I told them to replace it anyway but after I was told how much it is, I decided to wait and see. If it happens again then I'll definitely have the sensor replaced.

BTW, the price was 240 euros for the part alone. Labor was only 65 eur.

[Nomgle]

Update on the car. The fault logs indicated a fault in the first oxygen sensor, but they couldn't get the fault to appear again and they didn't think replacing the sensor would have been sensible at this point.

I told them to replace it anyway but after I was told how much it is, I decided to wait and see. If it happens again then I'll definitely have the sensor replaced.

BTW, the price was 240 euros for the part alone. Labor was only 65 eur.

If you're talking about the Lambda sensor right next to the Turbo, on the top of the engine, it's a 5 minute job to change it yourself. 150 Euros for the part from someone like https://www.jcparts.eu/products/1618hg and you just need a large spanner.

[Ragnarok]

If you are talking about the rear one after catalytic converter, I have one extra unused

[WTF]

If you are talking about the rear one after catalytic converter, I have one extra unused

Any other Racing bits laying about?!

[Ragnarok]

Any other Racing bits laying about?!

Hey,

well might have some stuff, have to look into it. At least the stock catalytic converter (almost unused, took it off at 20k kms).