Very Loud Tappets

[Andy150]

I've noticed some very loud tappet noises coming from my 1.6 THP recently, making it sound more like a 10-year old diesel than a 1-month old petrol with 1300 miles. Listening with the bonnet open, I can hear the normal high pitched tappet ticking but there's also a lower pitched tapping that's much louder and almost sounds like there's something loose in the head. I wonder if this cold weather has anything to do with it but I'm going to contact the dealer tomorrow to get it checked out. Just wondered if anyone else has experienced problems with the lifters before?

[Wickedredc2]

Is it ok after it's been started for a while ?

[Andy150]

No, does it when the engine's warm too. I still hear it when I get out after a long drive.

[Wickedredc2]

Best to get that checked out then but seems most of them don't care and will just say it's ok

[Owd git]

mine's the same - at minus 14C it sounds like an elderly tractor.........and a bit younger tractor normally. There's two noises one sounding like a tappet clatter and a second, less frequent one, that sounds more serious.

Sounds reasonably OK when warm and can't hear anything whilst driving

I'll probably get the dealer to check it out sometime for peace of mind and to document my concerns.................they all do that Sir!

[Fabian]

Is it not the cam-chain you hear?
These new engines are driven by a chain instead of a belt, so thats maybe what your hear

[Gareth]

When the oil is cold for 30 seconds mine is noisy. It lubes up the chain and then its less noisy. If there is a serious problem won't the engine management light come on?

[Owd git]

pinched this from a mini forum............you would imagine that the problem had been sorted before the DS3 went into production

All those with the MCS "death rattle" start-up problem (like me) should read this link to the Michigan MINI club forum. Aside from being MINI fanatics, they're also automotive and engine designers and engineers by profession. They walk the talk.

It's a lengthly read (13 pages), but they lay out a very convincing case from modern valve train theory and design, standard industry practice, and examination of the R56 valve train assembly components that the root cause of the R56 start-up "death rattle" is poorly designed hydraulic lash adjusters and excessive "dry lash" clearances during assembly - and absolutely nothing to do with the timing belt tensioner

http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/in...p?topic=3115.0


They lay the noise blame on a poorly designed (cheap) HLA that quickly bleeds down and depletes it's internal oil reservour after shutdown. After start, the HLA becomes a pneumatic lash adjuster until sump oil is finally pumped into the valve train assembly and the ingested air is slowly bled out of the HLAs. The shutdown position of the camshaft lobes will affect how many HLAs end up depleted, and the subsequent amount and variability of the start-up "rattle".

As Tom, their valve train designer/engineer guru states in their forum, the "rattle" we're hearing is not the HLA, but the valve itself smacking back into the cylinder head due to the "deflated" HLA. He recommends we do not exceed 2,000 rpm until the noise stops to avoid valve damage or breakage. His other recommendations are using a 0W30 synthetic oil and non-stop complaining to MINI. The engineers emphasize that the noise is NOT NORMAL, and make sure the dealers hear that loud and clear.

The above is paraphrased from their web site. I'm no expert. "Tom" is the valve train designer/engineer who is leading the charge on this. He owns 2 MINI's - a '07 MCS and a new Clubman. It takes awhile to read thru the entire thread, but I learned a lot about engine design, valve train, hydraulic lash adjusters, and camshaft theory and standards. Definitely not light reading, but it made a believer out of me. It certainly explains why replacing the tensioner is an exercise in futility.

[Jimbob]

I.m probably being a bit thick here but I presume this is a petrol engine problem only. Is that right?

Jimbob

[Den]

My Mini suffers from this too. The louder noise could be due to the water pump as that is a massive problem on minis, not sure if they would have sorted it on citroens though?

[Owd git]

I.m probably being a bit thick here but I presume this is a petrol engine problem only. Is that right?

Jimbob

yeah its only the THP150 engine that PSA Citroen/Peugeot co-developed with BMW

[Jimbob]

Cheers

(from one owd git to another)

Jimbob

[Andy150]

I didn't know the engine uses a cam chain instead of a belt, so it might be that. Taking it in today so will post an update soon.

[Bigfeet]

Will admit i didn't either! Learn something new everyday!

[Fabian]

When I test drove the DS3 THP from the dealer I only had this noise for about 3 minutes, after that, nothing....
It had about 8000km on the clock!

But what owd git says, a bit strange that this "problem" was not solved when they knew it from the Mini engine...