Coilovers or lowering springs?

[Czar]

Its the overall cost perspective- Jag XF shortly old chap (Well- bout 3 years when theyre less than half price)
Just cant see the cost benefit of Coilovers for the DS3, that when you've set them to right height, then most people just leave them there
So springs- why not. All sportier suspension is miserable ride- thought that was part of the fun

Lets be honest- could walk out my front door tomorrow, trip on a step, and be as a Dodo anyway.

PS- Getting Michelin Pilot Sport 3s shortly. Seem fine for me.

Sportier suspension is not a miserable ride, when coupled together with correctly adjusted suspension geometry, my BMW MINI GP2 with adjustable ride height suspension as factory stock with track dedicated tyres, is more ride compliant than my BMW MINI Clubman which has non adjustable factory standard suspension and rides on Goodyear Eagle asymmetric 2s, yet given my GP2's firm ride, it should be harsh when compared to my Clubman, yet it's the exact opposite!!

[Chris_Blue]

Sportier suspension is not a miserable ride, when coupled together with correctly adjusted suspension geometry, my BMW MINI GP2 with adjustable ride height suspension as factory stock with track dedicated tyres, is more ride compliant than my BMW MINI Clubman which has non adjustable factory standard suspension and rides on Goodyear Eagle asymmetric 2s, yet given my GP2's firm ride, it should be harsh when compared to my Clubman, yet it's the exact opposite!!

How much?

[Czar]

How much your KW coilovers Cyclone? Installed?

For a vehicle that costs £15k new, why spend around %10 on installing coilovers? (Me!)

Quite simply, for peace of mind, you should never ever consider the cost factor of components against the original purchase price, that's a recipe for spending more in the long run.

[Czar]

How much?

For what ?

[cyclone]

How much your KW coilovers Cyclone? Installed?

Around 1500Euro Chris, do my own work

Have a summer and winter set up, a set up for a public road that I love to drive and 3 setups for a closed road

[Chris_Blue]

Quite simply, for peace of mind, you should never ever consider the cost factor of components against the original purchase price, that's a recipe for spending more in the long run.

Yeah, yeah. 99% of the population haven't money enough to be able to but absolutely everything they want

In relation to the cost question- lets just say the comparison of cost between the vehicle you specify's suspension system, and, the system I have (Pre modification)

[cyclone]

Quite simply, for peace of mind, you should never ever consider the cost factor of components against the original purchase price, that's a recipe for spending more in the long run.

This is a wise statement.

[Chris_Blue]

Around 1500Euro Chris, do my own work

Have a summer and winter set up, a set up for a public road that I love to drive and 3 setups for a closed road

Bleedin eck. Know you do your own work. That sort of cost for a coilover system, is just not appropriate for me (And many, many others I suspect)

Not saying the moneys not there, but would upspec the vehicle rather than pay that. As per Czars last post- Might as well buy a specced vehicle in first place

Appreciate that's just me

[Chris_Blue]

For what ?

For the vehicle with this suspension
Or a better question- difference (Approx) between the suspension system on the vehicle you specified, and the suspension on mine?

As a guesstimate

[Czar]

i know i couldnt afford either at over 1k ago, i am a poor apprentice lol. But i know what point you make... surely there is a line though, asin these £1400 coilovers would be suitable for track/race use, surely a £600 decent set would be well enough for daily driving/fast road use?

ohh i knew i had a question for you (off topic) my local motorsport guy, fenton motorsport if you heard of them? one of the guys there told me there is a saying in motorsport, that an old race engine is a fast race engine, you heard this before?

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First and foremost I never stated a set of coil overs for £1,400.00 is what to purchase, I was merely pointing out that it's better and cost effective to purchase a coil over set and not just a set of spring coils, that will be mismatched to the factory stock suspension unit valved damping.

Even a cheap (nasty Chinese) set of coil overs that have been valved to match the spring rate as a complete unit, is better than a mismatch aftermarket spring installed onto a factory stock suspension unit.

As for an old race engine being a fast race engine, that all depends on whether that "old" race engine has stood the test of time, by that I mean, most "old" race engines are just that "old" knackered thoroughly worn out, and not necessarily fast anymore!!

But generally speaking race engines of old, were by today's standards, very uncomplicated, moderate power levels, and surprisingly reliable but uneconomical.

[colganraz]

understood, maybe i wasnt clear on the old race engine, maybe high mileage/ high useage would be a better term!

he told me that some high mileage diesels he had on the dyno, completely standard made higher power than what it was quoted from new... i know not a fair test, just telling you info i have been told!

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[Chris_Blue]

Even a cheap (nasty Chinese) set of coil overs that have been valved to match the spring rate as a complete unit, is better than a mismatch aftermarket spring installed onto a factory stock suspension unit.

Czar- Ive hung on every word you said on this site past months. You obvs know your stuff.

But that quote- your havin a larf surely

How many thousands and thousands of car enthusiasts have lowered their cars with springs, and had no major problems

Youre gonna have to work hard on this one, for me anyways

Maybe the word "Mismatch" can pull the quote back, but most enthusiasts purchase lowering springs appropriate to their specific vehicle anyway

[Czar]

For the vehicle with this suspension
Or a better question- difference (Approx) between the suspension system on the vehicle you specified, and the suspension on mine?

As a guesstimate

I think I'm loosing my way a little here, are you wanting to know the cost of the suspension on my BMW MINI GP2 against the suspension you have on your DS3 ?

If so the ride height adjustable suspension on my BMW MINI GP2 is Bilstein units with H&R springs, they were bespoke valved and sprung rated specifically for the BMW MINI GP2 that's why it rides so compliant, the cost is approximately £2,000.00
And the cost of my BMW MINI GP2 in the first place was £28,989.00 on the road.

[Chris_Blue]

The point of my question you respond to in the last post, was that you can get what you want if you pay for it. Same as Coilovers.

So- the Min is almost twice the price of the THP, so it would have the suspension required anyway

Probably dont make sense- but I know what I mean LOL

[Czar]

Czar- Ive hung on every word you said on this site past months. You obvs know your stuff.

But that quote- your havin a larf surely

How many thousands and thousands of car enthusiasts have lowered their cars with springs, and had no major problems

Youre gonna have to work hard on this one, for me anyways

Maybe the word "Mismatch" can pull the quote back, but most enthusiasts purchase lowering springs appropriate to their specific vehicle anyway

I see what your saying Chris, there are literally thousands as you say, that have not had any major issues that we know of, or indeed gets aired on a public forum, what I'm saying is, it's uneconomical and a mismatch to the stock suspension units valve dampening and travel length.

It makes more economical sense to pay once, fit once and have a unit that works as intended!!

How often do you see a lowered car bouncing merrily along the road ? And why do they bounce so much the lower they go ?
I think to curb this discussion before it runs away into the realms of suspension geometry, the answer to the above is, insufficient suspension travel from the suspension units fitted, preload on anti roll bars, and very limited travel of the suspension bottom arm if any at all, from lowering to much and indeed whilst under compression too.