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DS3 Racing engines - surely Citroen have to admit the scale of the problem?

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  • DS3 Racing engines - surely Citroen have to admit the scale of the problem?

    Hi

    This is my first ever forum post, so bear with me, but I've been looking at the forum for support over the last few days and now want to share my story....

    December 2011
    I contacted Citroen in Southampton to enquire about purchasing a car they were advertising online. The salesman informed me that it was definitely for sale, but had had an engine issue and was therefore awaiting a replacement engine. I was assured that the process was underway and that, if I bought the car, it would not be long until I
    received it. I paid £1000 deposit and awaited further information.

    February 2012
    After several phone calls asking for updates I was informed that Citroen had been investigating the problems with the car and that these had determined that a new engine
    was not necessary. I went ahead with the sale after the assurance that the problems had been resolved by a software upgrade. The car was delivered on 8 February 2012.

    Summer 2012

    I had some instances that caused me concern in the following months; but none that resulted in warning lights or failure. In August 2012 the engine failed on a dual carriage way. The warning message read ‘engine fault, repair needed’. The AA were unable to diagnose a fault. They escorted me to the nearest Citroen garage (Kendal) where the
    car remained for approximately 6 weeks undergoing fault diagnosis, receiving a new top half of engine and ultimately a completely new engine.

    July 2013
    The car was recalled for the MWD recall. I was advised that some adjustments had been made.

    Autumn 2013
    Several incidences related to a gap in power followed by a shuddering to get going again.

    December 2013
    On a motorway the engine suffered an obvious gap in reaction time, accompanied by a shuddering sensation, sufficient to make me check my rear view mirror for
    negotiating my way back to the hard shoulder in the event of complete failure. In the rear windscreen I saw a large amount of (white) emissions as if the shudder was a
    blockage that had been released. This was the most severe incident since I received the new engine.


    January 2014
    The car went to Citroen in Morecambe, a fault was diagnosed, the inlet manifold was removed and the dynamic cleaning of engine valves was undertaken. When I asked how this might be avoided in the future I was advised to always use premium unleaded fuel. I questioned why I had not been advised of that at point of sale (from Citroen in
    Southampton) or when the replacement engine was put in (by Citroen in Kendal) or when the MWD recall had been undertaken by Citroen in Morecambe. Since that date
    I have only used premium fuel as advised.


    February 2014
    The car was booked to return to Citroen in Morecambe due to engine issues. Upon tickover at traffic lights the fuel was not running through constantly as heard by a change
    in engine note which sounded like a shiver every 5 or so seconds. When moving it felt that my foot was trembling on the accelerator when it was not. Before the garage
    could fit my car in the engine gave up on the M6 motorway. Once again it slowed dramatically and flashed up ‘engine fault, repair needed’. Thankfully it was only 200m from the services and the AA could once again recover me. The car was left with Citroen in Morecambe on 26 February. I have informed Citroen that I will not accept it back again as I do not believe it is fit for purpose, I do not believe they can fix the issue and I do not believe it is safe.


    I have a case number and a Customer Support Manager. She reassured me that I could contact her anytime on her direct line. I emailed this morning to request an update, which was not acknowledged. I have spent most of this afternoon trying to call her; over 30 times over a 3 hour period. The line was busy (or off the hook) the entire time.
    The call at 5.01pm went straight to answerphone.

    My online research on the forums and websites has shown that I am not alone. I am in contact with the car’s previous owner who rejected it due to the engine problem. He
    received a second DS3 Racing which was also rejected. Only a few DS3 Racings were allocated for the UK market and many of them are experiencing engine faults or are on their replacement engines. Citroen have to acknowledge that there is an integral problem with the design of the engines and that the dealerships are treating the symptoms but not the cause. Today I was informed that my cylinder head would be removed, the valves cleaned again, some new parts fitted and it would be ‘fine’. I am certain that it will not be ‘fine’ and that the valves will again end up covered with gunk. I cannot have a car that requires this kind of work every 2000 miles, nor a car that is not covered
    by warranty.

    I would be grateful for any helpful comments that anyone can give me, particularly with regard to dealing with Citroen on the issue.

    With thanks,
    Lucinda

  • #2
    Hi Lucinda- shame you first post is so depressing- but as you are now aware, this has happended on more than several occasions to Racings
    All I can say is keep pursuing your rejection through not fit for purpose- maybe give them a get out by then suggesting they supply you a vehicle to similar cost to that you paid for this? They may rather do that than refund you?
    And if its Southampton- and the original owner went on to reject another Racing- it could well be Stef who used to get on here

    All I can do is offer you luck in getting the issue resolved
    And the moral is- dont buy a vehicle that has major issues- run a mile (Not intended to rub it in)

    Ed- The Racings arent sold in UK anymore, so doubt they will admit anything. Will just resolve the issues on the UK Racings as they come to light, or not, as the case may be
    Last edited by Chris_Blue; 28-02-2014, 19:58.
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    • #3
      Thanks Chris, I appreciate your message.

      You are right...I did buy Stef's first car. I found him on Facebook after googling it's registration.

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      • #4
        If you search the early days threads on here, he had lots problems
        May be able to use that information to your advantage

        Such a good looking car- tis a shame. I reckon theres something not right with the ECU programming- but am no expert
        Makes me wonder what engine the Cabrio Racing will have when they launch it
        Last edited by Chris_Blue; 28-02-2014, 20:20.
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        • #5
          reject it
          sigpic.

          | DStyle Nav 1.2 PureTech 110 |
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          • #6
            reject it and run
            Citroën DS3 Racing 2011 Polar White
            ZRP con rods, Wössner pistons, Forge Ind. Kit, Forge IC hard pipes, etuners S3 (E85, launch control), Clemens-Motorsport IC, cylinder head porting, oil pump mod, Devils Own WMI, Forge BOV, Powerflex rear engine mount, LEDs, Citroen mudflaps, Ragazzon de-cat/200cc sports cat, Mongoose catback

            Ex: BMW M135iA (2008) * BMW M3 E46 SMG2 (2003) * Subaru Impreza WRX STi (2007) * BMW M3 E46 (2001) * Seat Leon 1.8 TS4 (2003)
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Sell it. I had to have a new engine last year touch wood its running fine now its fitted with a catch can
              sigpicDs3 Racing

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              • #8
                So sorry to hear this, great looking cars let down by these issues
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Commercially Citroen are not going to admit to anything and have clearly decided it's cheaper to wait out the warranty expiration on these engines and move on. You made the mistake of believing Citroen actually knew what the problem was and how to fix it and they didn't and probably still won't admit to it even now as it leads back to the legal problem again.

                  If you don't want to be paying for the cylinder head to be decarbonised every couple of year then sell.

                  These are of course BMW designed engines with their innovative variable valve timing and a shocking cam chain system that caused a lot of early model issues but has been fixed. Citroen probably didn't understand or expect that these first generation of GDI direct injection engines would suffer from such a debilitating carbonisation on the inlet valves when they started tuning the VVT and boost pressures to produce more power from them. The multipoint injection VTi 120 engines are fine but the GDI turbo (THP) engines all suffer from the same problem with the higher tuned version suffering the worst. GM worked out how to minimise this with revised valve opening cam timing on their GDI engines and Toyota added redundant additional port injectors to clean off the inlet.

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                  • #10
                    hello i had one!!! for 2 and a half years did 42k in at died and several shite coursity cars , had new engine cost 6 k under warranty took 6 weeks will never ever buy another citrone EVER , gave it back in oct, got a subaru wrx sl with ppp never looked back
                    good luck

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                    • #11
                      I think this sort of experience is not typical but not exceptional and I understand the sentiments if not the writing very well.

                      Citroen's head in the sand denial approach isn't going to work in the digital age and it surprises me that they haven't had better PR advice. Perhaps they did and decided not to take it because it cost too much in additional warranty claims and recall cost.

                      Originally posted by darths3 View Post
                      hello i had one!!! for 2 and a half years did 42k in at died and several shite coursity cars , had new engine cost 6 k under warranty took 6 weeks will never ever buy another citrone EVER , gave it back in oct, got a subaru wrx sl with ppp never looked back
                      good luck

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                      • #12
                        Lucinda did buy just about the most infamous DS3r around tho. 2 engines blown when Stef owned it (see some early posts on this forum)
                        Wonder if who sold it her, told her about its past in depth?
                        Hope all goes well Lucinda
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chris_Blue View Post
                          Lucinda did buy just about the most infamous DS3r around tho. 2 engines blown when Stef owned it (see some early posts on this forum)
                          Wonder if who sold it her, told her about its past in depth?
                          Hope all goes well Lucinda
                          Thanks for that Chris!!! No, Freeborn Citroen definitely did not tell me about it's past in depth. I remember them saying it had some 'engine problems' and was awaiting a new engine (which is even written on the invoice). Eventually after waiting 6 weeks I continued with the sale as the salesman had said that the Citroen rally team had been over from France and the technical team from head office had been involved and the conclusion of all the investigations was that it needed a software upgrade. I've asked Freeborn for details of all the work done on the car in that period and they are ignoring me. I also asked for that information at the point of sale - wish I'd not paid until I had it!

                          We are about to enter week 4... apparently Citroen have found the long awaited long term solution - replacement inlet valves and a new cylinder head gasket. When I observed that a whole new engine hadn't helped in August 2012 I was told that there had been developments in the manufacturing of inlet valves. I'm not convinced of that one! They also told me that my car would be fixed last week. When I went to the garage on Saturday the bonnet was still propped open in the workshop.

                          I'm still maintaining that I'm not accepting it back as I believe that it's only a matter of time before their long term fix doesn't work. I've got away with two engine failures - one on a bypass and one on a motorway and I'm not prepared to risk my life or anyone else's anymore. Sadly Citroen UK only contact me when I slate them on Facebook!!!

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                          • #14
                            Quite right Lucinda- stick to your guns. They should have told you the full history
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                            Jog on Noddy

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                            • #15
                              Do dealers normally disclose full history on second hand cars ?
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