ds3 1.6Thp issues regarding anti-polution POSSIBLE CURE

[FlashRemapping]

We have heard of quite a few problems now with BOTH remapped and non remapped ds3 1.6Thps
The extent of the problem varies from vehicle to vehicle with most remapped vehicles having no problem whatsoever as with non remapped ones

The problem appears to be with the "posative crankcase ventilation"
The crankcase is slightly under posative pressure and has two outlets if it becomes necessary to relieve this pressure
One emits the air to the air intake just prior to the turbo and this does not appear to be the problem
The other comes from the left hand rear of the crankcase and takes posative pressure directly to the intake manifold

The problems seems to come from the emitted air also having oil and sludge contained within it
This is enetering the comstion chamber and detonating
As oil has similar properties to diesel you can imagine that small oily particles in the comustion chamber are detonating on the upward stroke of the piston
like a diesel - at this point the engine senses a problem and retards the timing as much as possible for a certain period and the car looses power - in some cases even throwing the car into limp mode - and making the dashboard look like a disco

The long term effect on your engine IF this is happening is that it will put pressure on the weakest point - in this case the piston rings - and pressure testing the head will reveal reduced engine compression

OK thats the bad news

Now the good news - if you are fairly mechanicaly proficiant with long this arms/hands and the grip of a gorilla ( fortunately Zack has a diesel here )
the fix is cheap

two caps ( available from citroen at about £2.25 + VAT each ) will cap off the pipe and this can be removed from the car
The part number from Citroen is 0361 s4

once removed you car drive the car as per normal - you will hear a small click as the valve in the inlet manifold shuts permanently

Thanks here belong to Dave-Beast who has found this article on e-tuners forum and thanks to them also as they have put on their website photos etc of how to fit these caps

The link can be found here
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...99&h=MAQCEbX9t

I would apreciate your feedback if you choose to make this adaptation

I have heard through the grapevine that Citroen is contemplating this as a change at next service but of course they would not admit a problem - I do though wonder why these parts ( caps ) are available from your local dealer if there were no problem. It is also a possabliity that the ecu governs when the valve at the inlet manifold opens and this may be controlable within the mapping - we are looking at this - but it is also possible it is governed only by pressure

Good Luck and thanks again to Dave Beast
DAVE
www.flashremapping.co.uk

[Fabian]

What about the air after this Mod?
Does this mean there is more air going to the Turbo side?

Think it's better then to first add a Oilcatch tank to that side before doing this mod!
Like this one from Forge: http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/con...roduct=FMCTDS3

[FlashRemapping]

yes its a very nice oil can that one
you can in fact buy pretty much the same thing elsewere from £35 odd
depends on your budget

air going to the Turbo side does not appear to be anywhere near as much of an issue as will condense in the intercooler

[mattds3sport]

so we reckon citroen may change this part themselves wen my cars in for service next month if i ask them ?

[FlashRemapping]

Hi Matt
It is possible - but wether they decide to do it to every car is questionable
If you are experiencing this problem - I would not wait for a recall / service advisory - I would buy the parts and do it myself or get my local garage to do it

Dave

[gar074]

My dealer was unwilling do this as part of a warranty repair last week (new chain and tensioner), as it isn't (yet?) in Citroen's official instructions on how to deal with the power loss problem. They also thought it might void the warranty if I had it done.

As Dave says, it seems absurd that Citroen should sell an official part to cap off the pipe, yet still claim that you invalidate your warranty if you fit it. Not much evidence of joined-up thinking there!

Hopefully we'll get some clarification soon (yeah, right).

[Stef]

As far as I'm aware only Peugeot are selling this part at present.

Stef

[FlashRemapping]

rubbish
I bought 4 from my local Citroen only dealer - Crayford motors - if you call em
0843 2242 940 Parts Dept i am sure they would sell them and post them out to you
using that part number - they even gave me a discount for being "in the trade"

whether Citroen acknowlage the problem or not do you want to get to a point with blown piston rings etc etc
I do not know if this is a cure all for all these problems but it certainly sorted out Dave-Beasts car ( after a new engine was fitted - due to piston ring problems _ there was still detonation till this pipe was removed now its even better than before with a motorsport map, open cone filter with cold air being pointed at the cone )

Thats why I think it would be good for a couple more to be tested

[Stef]

Thanks for your polite reply, remind me not to put any business your way.

[gar074]

No need for that, Stef - Dave's been a great help to many people on here, including me. He spend 30 minutes on the phone to me last week when I'm sure he had better things to do, and his information was first class.

I suspect that the evident irritation in his response to your post was directed not at you, but at the fact that Citroen seem reluctant to admit that the PCV pipe is a cause of the misfiring etc that many of us have been experiencing.

Do we really want to drive away from this forum people in the trade who post on here to assist us owners?

[Stef]

If the reply wasn't directed at me then I apologise. I'm in business for myself to and it pays to be courteous always especially on an Internet forum.

Stef

P.S I'll keep you updated with the results of mine, it goes back in tomorrow for the week so I'll reply here with the outcome, I mentioned the PCV thing to them too.

[FlashRemapping]

Sorry Stef
It is my frustration at Citroen not at you
If your local dealer does not want to supply you the caps find one that will
If it cures the problems - call Citroen tell them what you have done and ask them why they would consider this a warantee void if it has cured the problem that they could not fix
The little bags the caps come in even have bothe peugeot and citroen logos on them

I realy hope this cures all ills ( I doubt it will cure all but hopefully a decent percentage )
Citroen have under warantee replaced at least 3 complete engines that I know of due to this problem - at god knows what cost but its definately not cheap compared to £5 a time to replace this pcv pipe with caps - I do understand their reluctance to do a recall due to cost but how many engines will go pop before they do

In hindsight Dave did say to me there was a slight knock 3 times under the bonnet like a tap with a hammer before the car used to throw up a fault - this is the detonation

[Fabian]

yes its a very nice oil can that one
you can in fact buy pretty much the same thing elsewere from £35 odd
depends on your budget

air going to the Turbo side does not appear to be anywhere near as much of an issue as will condense in the intercooler

Thanks for info Dave!
Think i'm going to have a look to also fit an Oil Catch Tank together with this Mod!

[Stef]

Sorry Stef
It is my frustration at Citroen not at you
If your local dealer does not want to supply you the caps find one that will
If it cures the problems - call Citroen tell them what you have done and ask them why they would consider this a warantee void if it has cured the problem that they could not fix
The little bags the caps come in even have bothe peugeot and citroen logos on them

I realy hope this cures all ills ( I doubt it will cure all but hopefully a decent percentage )
Citroen have under warantee replaced at least 3 complete engines that I know of due to this problem - at god knows what cost but its definately not cheap compared to £5 a time to replace this pcv pipe with caps - I do understand their reluctance to do a recall due to cost but how many engines will go pop before they do

In hindsight Dave did say to me there was a slight knock 3 times under the bonnet like a tap with a hammer before the car used to throw up a fault - this is the detonation

No problem Dave, my apologies for my sharp reply.

I have got a pair of those caps, I got them from the Peugeot dealer, I must have mis-read somewhere and intrepreted it that only Peugeot dealers were selling them.

I have mentioned this issue to the service manager and also sent him the link to e-tuners that you also mentioned above. I'll even take them in and suggest they might want to make mine a guinea pig!

Do you think long term by only having the one breather via the turbo that it will cause issues with the intercooler blocking? I've experienced similar for years on my old Land Rovers where the intercooler needed a damn good rinse out with cleaner.

The car I had before this one was a Chrysler 300C SRT8 with the 6.1L Hemi V8 had similar potential issues with the PCV valve, I had a catch can fitted to that one but it didn't collect much more than about 25ml of oil over several thousand miles, and I certainly never had to top up the oil between service intervals.

Stef

[Clarky]

Hmmmm i wonder if this fix will get rid my intermitent misfire ??.....Be intersted to see what happens !!!.